Joss's assault on Loki's characterization
Loki is playing the long game against Thanos. And I’m pretty sure that Odin’s still alive, because there still needs to be a final confrontation between Odin and Loki — one in which Odin calls Loki “laufeyson,” the ultimate Asgardian insult.
So I might as well admit up front that I’ve never been Joss’s biggest fan. I regard him as fun and very little more. One of his chief merits is that he is never anticlimactic. He does know how to tell a story, which goes a long way. And he’s good at the witty…
just in case you also need a to have a staring contest with tom, or gaze into his gorgeous puppy dog eyes or intense eyes… or just wanna get pregnant by eyefuck. hey! whatever floats your boat is coolI believe the boats are mostly sinking
He finally realizes that Odin has wanted to kill him his whole life. But he never intended to rule earth at all — he’s just playing a long game against Thanos.
Sometimes I look at this scene, then I think about the cut scene from Avengers where Loki tells the Other he will rule Midgard ‘unmercifully’ and I wonder which is the truth. I mean, that scene was cut though so maybe that means we wouldn’t consider it canon because the writers didn’t want it. I wonder if, after he did the ‘conquering’ part and the Avengers + Thor had somehow not been around or able to stop him, he really would have tried to be a good ruler after stamping out all the rebellions, and used the fact that he’s 1000 years older than everyone to manipulate the politics and convince Earth to make some decent changes that might’ve won some nations over (either out of fear of the unknown, or actual interest). Maybe he would’ve given us magic and improved architecture, technology and medicine. I doubt he’d want to settle in without jump-starting our civilization a bit.
Inevitably, the whole conqueror concept in general doesn’t sit well with humanity so I don’t think he would’ve been able to hold a peaceful rule at all, but I wonder if his intention was really to try? I don’t doubt that may have been what he was taught either directly or through Asgardian history, that to invade you will first need to break the will of a realm and then re-mold it for governing. In the end though I also still hold that his motive wasn’t actually good rule in and of itself, but rather just to take something as his own (read, take Earth from Thor) to stroke his own ego and hide from the fact that he’s from Jotunheim. That’s also why he’s still to blame for making his own choices about what he did on Earth, no matter what Thanos or the scepter told him, threatened him with, or did to him. Thor had told him before that he ‘missed the truth of ruling’, basically that he was going about it all wrong, and he seemed to not have any clue why his stance wasn’t correct, but he didn’t want to understand Thor’s way either.
You could say he was subconsciously trying to prove he was Asgardian at heart, and then this talk with Odin proved that it was always going to backfire. Judging from his grinning and messing around right before he said these lines, aside from it just being his personality, maybe he even thought Odin would just let him free once he stated his reasons, and maybe Loki grew up like that, getting in trouble but then being spoiled and let off the hook because he’s a prince. (I don’t know how he reasoned that his process was good though, given how he SAW Thor get banished for disturbing the peace in Jotunheim…but then again this probably goes to show just how insignificant he believes Midgard is, and that he’s lost all sight of what being level-headed means) He brings up his birthright as a defense because he’s used to his status being a bartering tool, no matter who he’s talking to. His demeanor only changes when Odin raises his voice, then mentions Frigga being his only saving grace, and he probably now thinks that Odin wanted to kill him his whole life. ~
Loki is playing the long game against Thanos. You’ll see.
izazov replied to your post “izazov replied to your post:enname replied to your post:enname replied…”Speaking like a thorki shipper, I’m interested in coming up with a plausible reason for Thor not to kill the little shit on sight. TDW is like slap in the face. Loki, his ‘death’…
I usually only blog or reblog Marvel (and I try to focus on Tom Hiddleston as Loki) but i can’t resist this.
BRING ME SCHRÖDINGER’S HEAD
“where the hell is the aether now Tivan’s collection is in tatters…” goood point. Although if I know Marvel, we’ll discover that the box that contained it … contained it. Because Loki. my larger point is that this is the best way to think about the MCU, as a coherent whole, where every part of it is going to intersect with every other part of it. So I really, really like this post.
Just an observation: I’ve seen a few posts going around saying that Loki’s sceptre is an infinity stone, and you know, I don’t really buy it. But what’s more interesting to me personally is that I haven’t seen anyone say that hey, Taneleer Tivan said that the infinity stones come from…
Asgard, you suck. Real badly.
would like to add that everyone in the “know” would have as pleased as anyone would to be able to pass around gossip that there was something wrong with Odin’s second son. So Loki would have gotten that “silver tongue turned to lead” treatment from just about everyone he crossed paths with … what a way to guarantee to someone that there really was something wrong with him.
Recently, when I was re-watching the scene in which Loki finds out he’s adopted, I had a sudden realization relating to Odin’s specieism and how Loki being a Frost Giant helped built his issues. Then I found a Loki fan who had a similar discussion going on in their blog, and it all got me thinking about Loki, and the fact he was completely cut off from his own culture, and brought up Asgardian instead.
And man, that’s fucked up.
I’m dividing this meta into two part: in the first part I discuss Loki’s emotional issues as a whole, and in the second part I talk about how his species influenced those.
TRIGGER WARNINGS: discussion of transphobia, sexism, misogyny, ableism, suicide, and very unhealthy family dynamics. I talk about Loki’s self-esteem issues and his desire for validation. Mentions of torture, brainwashing and Loki’s attempted destruction of Jotunheim. Let me know if I missed any warnings.
Edited to fix some issues.
Odin, your specieism is showing.
This has just hit me over the head. Odin, your blatant specieism against the Jotuns is showing and it’s not helping Loki feel accepted.
The infamous “Loki founds out he’s adopted” scene. When Loki demands to know: “You could have told me what I was, from the beginning, why didn’t you?”
Which struck me as a… odd thing to ask. Like, what’s bothering you here, Loki? What is really the problem? That you’re adopted in and of itself? That Odin lied to you? That you’re a Jotun? Where exactly are you getting to?
thor 2 is basically about everyone threatening loki not to betray thor and loki just not taking any of their shit for serious
Oh, Loki takes Thor’s friends seriously. These are traitors threatening his life, traitors in league with one who has made a good faith effort to end him. I just don’t think he gives a shit because whatever they could dish up he’s seen worse and at least if they kill him he’s free of the torture chamber
The irony must appeal as well. All his life, he has always been told he’s WRONG about things. No, Loki, Father *does* love you. No, Loki, my friends are your friends as well. You’re imagining things, Loki. No, Loki, the gaslight is not flickering, you must be insane. And isn’t it ironic that all Loki’s ‘imagined slights’ are being proved to be not so imaginary after all? Yes, Thor, Odin really doesn’t love Loki. Yes, Odin, Loki really *is* only a stolen relic, locked away until he is needed, then locked away again. Yes, Thor, Loki was right about your precious friends not liking him, and yes, Thor, Loki was right about you not being his brother, because no brother would behave like that. Odin, Thor, Sif, the W3, even Frigga, are proving him right right, left and center, and the sweet irony is that they don’t even *know* they’re doing it, the selfrighteous swine that they are.
Oh my word yes to all of this. And then - something guaranteed to send me flying into a frothing fit - then we get numerous Loki FANS telling us, direct quote, I’ve heard this more times than I can count, “he did it all to himself.” At which point EVERY FUCKING TRIGGER I’ve ever developed regarding victim blaming gets flipped and I lose my ever-loving shit.
//Something I just noticed, does anybody else think it’s incredibly symbolic that Thor is walking away while Loki is being threatened? Loki’s freaking life is being threatened behind Thor’s back and Thor doesn’t have a clue (or likely want one). Looks like he’s just continuing the pattern of centuries. In the third he’s putting a hand on Jane’s back and leading her away like “C’mon babe, this way”, while just behind him Sif has a freaking sword to his brother’s throat? Yet Thor is completely oblivious.
The best part is, look at the position of Loki’s hands: Loki is probably still chained up at this point, and these cowardly dirtbags are threatening him while he’s in manacles and can’t fight back. Yes, very courageous of them. That’s real Asgardian bravery and loyalty right there. ~gag~
I bolded stuff, because it puts into words what I wanted also to point out. But for me even worse than the idiots four behavior is really Thor’s. I wont even use the ‘brother’ card anymore, because way too depressing. I use the ‘thinking’ card, and the ‘OMG this is going to be a KING’ card.
Lets see Loki’s ~incentives~ for not ~betraying~:
He gets revenge and his cell back again, and he will ‘only’ be killed by Thor if he ‘betrays’. So he gets to be again the shadow that enables Thor to be the hero and kill Malekith to avenge his mother (because Thor will be the one who gets the glory and the actual satisfaction, he is the HERO). And he gets his beautiful cell back! Maybe with all those extravagant gifts like a bed and books, for ETERNAL IMPRISONMENT. And I am changing now my wording from ‘lifelong’ to ‘eternal’ because LOL when its about gods, well lifelong = eternal. And just maybe someone will notice that even if ‘omg here on earth we also send people to prison for life’, its a **** long time. (Apropos somewhere, I cant find the thread, I wanted to say that I am also this weird person who thinks that filling up a lot of prisons isn’t the way to go to solving the HORRIBLE underlying problems that lead people to commit crimes.)
The idiot four heap on the incentive of murder if you don’t obey! YAY! And his ‘brother’ walks away because nothing bad is happening, they are reminding him of ‘his place’.
But Loki is so EVIL isn’t he? You have to threaten him. And here comes my ‘omg the dude will be an actual king someday’ and I weep for the nine realms. Because its historically proven, that even if you have to make plans as a tactician that someone could betray you, you try first to gain an ally with OFFERING something of actual worth to that person. You can plan accordingly to a betrayal. But when you ask someone for help, even if he is so EVIL, you ask what he would want for his assistance. Can you imagine Thor as king making alliances? With people who have not developed a thousand years of Stockholm syndrome to his family?
And so I am already trying to drown myself in chocolate and alcohol, because this movie will end with Loki actually saving, sacrificing himself for the people who dispensed this type of incentive (bullying, death-threats).
Even setting everything else aside (good points though they are), it’s just fucking stupid of Thor. If Loki really is as selfish, cold-hearted and back-stabbing as Thor and company make him out to be, why on earth would you expect him to nicely go along with your plans when all he gets from you are threats, humiliation, and a promise to return to prison?
That’s just guaranteeing that he’ll have no reason to trust you and therefore no reason to go along with what you want. It’s going to encourage him to put that knife in your back and get the fuck out of dodge before you can kill him or lock him up for ever.
Imagine that Loki is exactly as villainous as they believe. What’s to stop him from a) killing Thor and Jane, before or after Malekith is dealt with (I mean, setting himself up as a hero would be a nice position for further plotting, but letting them do the work and then offing them also works); or b) if he is as insane and potentially suicidal as the movie hints at, saying fuck it and helping Malektih blow up the universe? His options are die or go insane in a cell anyway, so why not take them all with him? In comparison, saving Jane and Thor’s lives, playing dead and going back to quietly remove from power a guy who the movie has just been at pains to depict as a foolish, power-hungry narcissistic tyrant whom Thor rightly rebelled against, and to sit on a throne Thor has zero interest in, is hardly the deepest villainy. He is in fact most likely the only reason Thor survived his return to Asgard, given that Odin washed his hands of Thor and tried to murder him the moment he picked working with Loki over obeying daddy dearest.
It’s the same problem as with that ridiculous plan of Thor’s in Svartalfheim: it only works if Loki actually is more trustworthy and self-sacrificing than anyone says they believe. Which then makes the demand that we strictly consider him a villain and the people threatening him pure-hearted heroes a little ridiculous.
actually, didn’t Robert Redford say this to the winter soldier? just saying
Your work has been a gift to mankind, you shaped the century and I need you to do it one more time